How is Trump Still a Viable Contender? posted
Seriously, how did we get here?
I have such a hard time comprehending how anyone, in good faith, can endorse Donald Trump to be the President of the United States.
Especially after not being endorsed by many of the highest ranking people of his own party, who he hired… his Vice President, his National Security Advisor, his Director of National Intelligence, his Secretary of Defense, his highest ranking military officer, his White House Chief of Staff, and the list goes on, and on.
These Republicans, and so many other people who’ve worked with him know that he’s wildly unethical, a threat to our nation’s security, and to our democracy. How can anyone believe otherwise?
- He's the most compulsive of liars.
- He stole and illegally hoarded national secrets after serving his term.
- He’s tried to put himself above the constitution.
- He’s constantly trying to undermine our democracy.
- He's an admitted and proven sexual predator and abuser.
- He acts as if he's above the law and seeks to remain that way.
- He only cares about himself, “winning,” and having as much power as he possibly can.
- He has a vendetta with fewer safeguards in place to protect our democracy if he returns to office.
- He wants to be dictator.
Not even taking into account his constant grifting, felonies, complete lack of empathy, the fact that he's nearly 80 years old with obvious mental decline, or countless other issues...
What redeeming quality does he have that makes anyone overlook all of this?
Donald Trump is flat out not a good person. He does not embody the conservative values that I was raised with, and he is not fit to be President.
How are we in a place where we may hand this corrupt old man the most powerful position of our nation for a second time? A more dangerous time. How does anyone hold an allegiance to this troll? The biggest thing that he's led is the rhetoric in dividing our nation, our families, and our friendships.
How is this election so. damned. close?
Go to vote.gov. Make sure that you’re registered to vote and that your registration is active.
Then, just vote.
This petty old sore loser is not what America's about. We are better than this, and we don't deserve any more of his chaos.
comments
I've wondered the same thing. The best I can come up with is these factors. 1) He preys on the human thing in all of us that is excited by hate and conflict. 2) He tells a story representing himself as an outsider, which is appealing to those who have been negatively impacted by decades of wealth consolidation. 3) He appeals to the wealthy with his tax policies.
He is nothing without the support of so many people. Seeing *him* as the problem misses the core problems of the societal conditions that have led to his rise.
zs posted
I think that the crucial component that is missing in your argument is who Trump is running against.
Despite their countless claims to the contrary made in favor of getting your vote the National Dems give zero shits about the American working class, and the emperor’s clothes is fully off on this one.
Folks are choosing to vote against the National Dems party as much or more than they’re choosing to vote specifically for Trump, and if the Dems could actually choose the American working class over their ultra wealthy donor class Trump wouldn’t even be an afterthought.
BonerParty42069 posted
zs, I largely agree. I'd also add that point #2 is still preying on folks.
BonerParty42069, your argument about democrats not caring about the working class is simply not true. Many of Trump's actions, including tax cuts for the rich have worsened the wealth gap. Worldwide inflation caused by the Covid-19 pandemic were followed by corporate greed, and this has made things even worse.
Many of Harris' and the democrats' policies are aimed directly at improving things for the lower and middle classes. A lot of them are clearly laid out here: kamalaharris.com/issues/
To your other point about ultra wealthy donors. Last I checked, the top 5 donors are to Trump... In fact, most of the top donations are to Trump. Harris is being backed by the middle class, my dude. Source: www.opensecrets.org/...donors
I can gladly lay out why I'm voting for Kamala Harris, although I can't imagine that will be a conversation that'd be productive with you.
I think that the best look at who we're voting for (or against) at the top of the ticket is laid out by PBS Frontline in The Choice 2024. It's long, but also good to be informed: youtu.be/yjPxL5w3OOU...RckbOu
derek posted
Your argument about why the Dems care about the working class is that “Trump is worse.”
This is what the Dems do, and it doesn’t work.
And please, give me a cohesive and convincing argument that both of the parties aren’t fully bought and paid for by the ultra wealthy class.
Americans can see that the Dems stated policies don’t align with their actions and values, Americans don’t like getting lied to and they’re desperate for anybody that actually and genuinely cares about the American working class, and Trump has successfully leveraged this reality in his favor.
BonerParty42069! posted
And please don’t conflate my willingness to critique the Dem party where it’s due with a desire to vote for Trump or have him be our next president. I would love nothing more than to have an electable Dem Party under which Trump couldn’t have possibly been anybody of relevance in the first place, but the party is so inept it’s as if they don’t even want to win.
BonerParty42069! posted
Dearest BonerParty42069,
Critique is great, but come on. Americans don't like getting lied to? My blog is specifically asking why Americans are backing the most lyin-ass president of our history? en.wikipedia.org/wik..._Trump
My argument about why democrats care about the working class isn't that "Trump is worse," although you do have a good point. The whole "The other person is worse" argument isn't the best tactic to get votes and honestly annoying. It's something that the left has overused when campaigning, and it has hurt them.
I pointed you to a link that clearly lays out Kamala's policies that are aimed at the working and middle classes, but my argument would be that democrats consistently push initiatives to improve the lives of the working class, like funding public education, increasing access to affordable housing, raising the minimum wage, making healthcare more accessible+affordable, strengthening workers' rights through pro-union legislation, paid family leave, affordable childcare, and free community college, pushing for social safety nets like social security, medicare, etc. Finally, they advocate for higher taxes on the ultra-wealthy to fund programs that support the working and middle class.
That said, all of this requires congress, some of which is bought and paid for like you say. It requires bipartisan compromise, but it's absolutely democrats who are championing these things that strongly benefit the working and middles classes.
I completely agree that we need more safeguards in place to restrict money in politics. I'd love to see more limits on campaign fundraising, limits on stock trading by members of congress, presidents funding their personal businesses with tax dollars, etc. Our lawmakers and officials should not be able to be bribed.
So, there are my points, and I'll ask your question back. How is Trump going to make things better for the working class that would make anyone (not necessarily you) overlook his completely unethical behavior?
derek posted
To answer the question about him being a viable contender, I think you have to be honest about how bad of a candidate Kamala is too. She may be the worst we’ve ever seen. She’s never received a single vote in a primary. Lied to us for 3.5 years about Joe’s health being ok, but after the Joe/Trump debate they knew they couldn’t deny it any longer. Followed that up with a lawsuit to keep RFK off the ticket in multiple states so that people wouldn’t be able to have to decide between her and RFK. If that’s not undermining democracy I’m not sure what is. She can barely complete an answer to a question with a coherent thought without a teleprompter. She changes her accent depending on the area of the country she’s in, or the group of people she’s talking to. She just comes across super fake and/or phony. Bottom line is we have two pretty bad candidates and that’s why the race is so close imo. On top of that there’s a lot of people who truly do believe they were better off under his administration as well.
Redd posted
"She may be the worst we've ever seen" is a pretty big statement, and I can't quite say that I see it... at all.
You know how when you're with someone every day, you don't notice them changing as much? But if you step away and come back, the change is super obvious? That's kind of how I view Biden's decline. We don't really know what was going on with Biden's health for the past 3.5 years, but that's what we get for putting super old men on the ticket. Even if it was obvious to those that were working with him, the blame isn't solely on Kamala for not sounding the alarm. We do know that he's been doing his job though - maybe not to everyone's agreement but he's doing his job. I'm personally glad that he put his ego aside and did what his constituents wanted. How hard must it be to be one of the most powerful people in the world and voluntarily give it up? He had the delegates to run and chose to pass the torch. Legally. That is respectable, in my opinion... and I totally understand why the opposition is upset about it. Because now the only old man on the ticket is theirs... and he's terrible to boot.
As for Kamala not receiving a single vote in the primary... She dropped out of the 2020 race before any votes were even cast, so of course she didn't get any. But, she was on Joe's ticket and was voted into office alongside him, with more votes than any candidate in history. As the vice president, we elected Kamala to become the president if anything should happen to Joe... and now look where we're at. Something has happened to Joe. He is old as balls and showing mental decline. It was time for him to go, and the next logical person to take over was Kamala. It just makes sense for her to be next in line. We voted for her to be and she has the experience. I do agree that Biden should've dropped out earlier though.
Regarding RFK Jr... Trump and that weirdo are also both taking legal action to alter the ballot so that he's pulled off in many states. He dropped out too late. That's his own stupid fault. His screw up becomes part of the campaign game and we have to let the legal system sort that out. I'm personally fine with him being removed, but having worked for a campaign, I know that these are the games that are played - on both sides.
I don't think Kamala is perfect by any means, but voting for a president isn't a marriage. I personally believe that she'll be a solid, and maybe even boring president. In fact, getting back to the status quo of not hearing or thinking about the president daily sounds incredible. But if we think they're both bad, we should all be informing ourselves and choosing the better of the two. In this case, Kamala is absolutely better.
Some of your points sound like echoes of right wing media commentary, but I think the best way to truly learn about a candidate is to remove the biased commentators. Watch PBS Frontline's Choice. Watch the debates. Listen to the 1-on-1 interviews. Fact check everything (it's sad that we have to do that) and form your own opinion.
In this election, a lot of the timing on who was better off when is unfortunately conflated with everything that happened during and after the Covid-19 pandemic. We can easily place blame on either administration if we're not deliberate and critical when weighing that alongside their actual values and their work.
derek posted
If all the things you laid out above about Trump are true, then, like you asked, how is this even close? It’s one of two things. Either Kamala is a terrible candidate or all of the things said about Trump don’t carry any weight. There’s a handful of things I can think of off the top that led to that thinking in the general public. Hunter Biden laptop. Was suppressed as Russian disinformation by main stream media and the DOJ. We know today that all of those allegations are true. I’ve watched a handful of undercover videos exposing top execs at CNN and the like, caught on camera saying they purposefully suppress bad info for “their”candidate. Or run with unverified information negative towards Trump. Look up James Okeefe and project veritas. Look up Ian Carroll. Ian does a great job breaking down talking points with verifiable resources that proves we’ve been misled or lied to on a number of important items. Including the FBI and CIA. RFK has echoed some of this too in recent interviews. Trump was the first one to point this out as “fake news” or deep state corruption.” Good or bad, he’s not entirely wrong.
Of course some of my points are right wing media talking points. Doesn’t make them any less true. Just as your bullet points above are all talking points on left wing media outlets. It’s bc there’s some merit to them and it’s negative for the person they don’t want to win the election. Again, doesn’t mean they aren’t factual. I pay attention to what’s going on both sides, or at least try too. I try to follow people on both sides to find middle ground. I’ve seen numerous videos over the last 3.5 years that led me to believe Joe wasn’t all there for about the last 2 years. I’ve watched interviews from Kamala over the past couple of weeks now that she’s decided to start doing them . I hope she does more of them in the coming weeks. I hope the rumors about her going on Rogan or Fox News are true. Trumpito too. I’m more informed than the majority of voters.
I just listened to Kamala say on The View that she wouldn’t change a thing about the last 3.5 years. That she was apart of most big decisions. She was the tie breaking vote to approve the American Rescue plan that green lighted 1.9 trillion in spending. That bill played a big part in the crippling inflation we’ve seen. I’ve seen the numbers on illegal immigration and what the current administration tried to do to keep those numbers from going public. I’ve listened to her word salad answers that don’t really answer the question. I watched her town hall where she needed a teleprompter so that she could stick to the script. She doesn’t sound like someone ready to be in this position.
Every person you refer to above coming out against Trump. Yes, they all worked for him and they all were fired. So I think it’s fair to take what they say with a grain of salt. Trump is a bumbling fool when he gets going and says a lot of outlandish shit that isn’t true. No argument there. But he gets a lot of back lash from career politicians or federal employees for saying the stuff you’re not supposed to say out loud. He cut a bunch of federal jobs that were a waste of money, fired the FBI director. He ran things like he would a business and took away a lot of cushy jobs for folks that didn’t deserve them. I think this should be considered when those people he fired are coming out against him.
I acknowledge there’s quite a bit to not like about Trump. If someone can’t acknowledge the same thing about Kamala, then I don’t think that’s fair or reasonable. Bc again, that’s the only reason this is close imo.
Thanks for sharing the link for PBS. I’ll give it a listen.
Redd posted
Dude, you've lost me with the FBI and CIA conspiracy theories presented by a TikToker. Randos trying to expose what these highly secretive organizations are doing isn't how I'm trying to spend my time... but I think your point is that, these theories are leading Trumpers to say "the other side is just as bad," which is just pure ignorance.
Who is spreading lies about what's going on with hurricane relief, lying about Haitians eating pets, helped kill a bipartisan border deal, and all this other shit that I mentioned above that hurts real people for political gain? It isn't Kamala.
You saying that things are so close because either Kamala is terrible or Trump's unethical behavior doesn't carry any weight is just silly. Could another option be that Kamala isn't terrible and Trump IS unethical af? You know he is. His unacceptable spoiled brat bitch boy behavior not carrying any weight with people is the entire point of my post. It should carry weight. There is no comparison in what these 2 candidates stand for. None.
Trump fires people when they don't help him get ahead, even if they're experts in their field. Mike Pence stood up for the constitution and got fired because he did not hold an illegal allegiance to Trump, and now he's demonized. Most of the other conservatives on this page were not hired or fired by him... but they know him, and they do not endorse him: en.wikipedia.org/wik...mpaign
I've acknowledged that Kamala isn't perfect, but she's incredibly experienced, qualified, tough, and reasonable. She's also not spreading lies that hurt real Americans or doing ANY of this unethical shit that Trump is.
Anyway, I wasn't particularly interested in a long, drawn out political argument with this blog post, and most of my original questions were rhetorical anyway.
Here is why I believe things are close:
1. Bubbles and where people get their information - whether it be their news source, their geographical bubble, or online algorithms. Americans on all sides are more informed by bias and misinformation than ever. This leads to ignorance. I truly believe that the internet and social media have failed us. Another friend also pointed out that the removal of the FCC's Fairness doctrine has played a big role in why our media has become so biased. en.wikipedia.org/wik...ctrine
2. Trumpism has amplified the us-vs-them mentality in our country. To Zack's point above, he preys on humans being excited by conflict. It's childish and it's dividing our nation. Just listen to the way both of them speak and look at their actions. Trump fires people who don't side with him, he threatens to not give aide to blue states like California. Biden and Harris are currently supporting the shit out of red states that've been hit by disaster - and again Trump is lying about it to divide us.
3. To Zack's other point, Trump represents himself as an outsider, which a ton of people feel a connection to. They're very different types of outsiders and his policies aren't in many of their best interests... but he misleads them about those parts to make that connection.
4. Straight up biases. Unfortunately I think that there's also a fair amount of sexism and racism contributing to the closeness here. A lot of the things that the right is criticizing about her, they're giving Trump a pass on. You even pointed out the talking point about Kamala's occasional "word salad" over Trump's constant incoherent babbling. You also made a borderline racist argument above about her changing her accent as an excuse that she is phony. Compare the accent changes of brown woman with immigrant parents to Trump's phoniness with his fraudulent ass? Come on.
Finally, I don't think the smaller population of ultra-wealthy people plays a huge role in why it's close. I think their selfishness will always lean conservative, and I think their selfishness is amplified by their ability to overlook how awful and dangerous of a person Trump is for their own personal gain.
Conservative leaning folks could also just not vote for Trump and vote Republican up and down the rest of the ballot. I'm sure that's what all of these conservatives are doing: en.wikipedia.org/wik...mpaign
derek posted
There it is. Racism, sexism and bigotry is why it’s close. That message has been pushed from the left ever since Trump came into the picture and people are fed up with it. And I’m borderline racist for pointing out that she does? That’s disgusting. That’s the bubble you live in and that’s disappointing.
The rando tik toker that you’re so quick to dismiss was just proven right on the CIA the other day when a CIA agent went on Brett Baer and admitted it. Said they had no proof of it being misinformation but has all the earmarks of it. If there’s no proof why say anything? Bc there’s an agenda to push. Why is it so outlandish to think our govt is into some really bad shit? There people just like us. And a lot of people LOVE power and want to keep it or grasp it no matter who it hurts. Not just old Trumpito bad orange man.
Redd posted
Racism and sexism was #4 on my list of reasons that I believe it's close. I didn't use the term bigotry and also did not call you a racist.
I said that your statement was borderline racist because it was. Her accent changes are called AAVE code-switching and it's often used by black people as a survival tactic in a historically racist society.
Minorities like Kamala are still very often treated unfairly, simply because of their skin color, gender, and ethnicity. She is being held to different standards than Trump. That was my point.
I just looked up the Brett Baier interview with David Priess and heard a pedantic argument that has nothing to do with how the election between Kamala and Trump is so close.
derek posted